Revelation 22:13 – Objections

Some objections have been posted related our presentation of Revelation 22:13 on the following blogsite:

http://mmcelhaney.blogspot.com/2008/09/bible-basics-trinity-part-2-redux.html

MMcelhaney does not actual address the arguments presented, but instead seems to present material designed to distract from the studies.

I would love to see what version of the Bible and what printing the author used.

I showed in the study the translation used: “World English Bible translation, with quotation marks slightly adjusted from that used in the World English.”

I did not use any print edition, but I used that which is online at studylight.org and bible.crosswalk.com. Information on this translation may be found at:
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Information/WorldEnglishBible.html

The World English translators, being trinitarian, and believing that Alpha and Omega is Jesus, would supply quotation marks to support that belief. Of course, the earlier Greek had no punctuation, quotation marks, etc., so whatever is supplied along this line is so supplied by the discretion of the translators.

Every King James Version and any Bible that has Christ’s words in red letters have these verses in red. Why? Traditionally this has been interpreted to be Jesus’ words.

This appears to an appeal to man’s traditions rather than actually addressing the scriptures themselves. The fact that any publisher of the Bible decides to put words in red so as to attribute those words to Jesus does not offer any proof that those words were in fact spoken by Jesus. Add to this that most publishers of Bibles are trinitarian, and thus believe that Jesus claimed to be the Alpha and Omega. In effect, this kind of argument is circular, stating that we believe that these are words of Jesus, and therefore since we believe that these are words of Jesus, then we offer our belief that these are words of Jesus that they are the words of Jesus.

https://sonofyah.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/ao-01/

https://sonofyah.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/ao-2/

https://sonofyah.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/ao-03/

Why assume that the angel is quoting someone else.

Although I am not sure what the purpose of this statement; I gave the reasons for this in the studies, and this is stated in Revelation 1:1. There is no reason to assume otherwise. John refers to the angels who spoke to him and showed him these things. — Revelation 1:1; 17:7; 22:6,8.

From the fourth chapter of Revelation to the end of the book, the one “who sits on the throne” is not the Lamb, who depicts Jesus, for the Lamb approaches the one who sits on the throne in order to take the scroll from the one sitting on the throne. (Revelation 5:6,7) This one “who sits on the throne” is one that Jesus addressed earlier as “my God.” (Revelation 2:7; 3:2,12)  The one who sits on the throne is Yahweh God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God who sent Jesus, the God and Father of Jesus. —  Exodus 3:15; Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Matthew 4:4 (Deuteronomy 8:3; Luke 4:4); Matthew 4:7 (Deuteronomy 6:16); Matthew 4:10 (Exodus 20:3-5; 34:14; Deuteronomy 6:13,14; 10:20; Luke 4:8); Matthew 22:29-40; Matthew 26:42; Matthew 27:46; Mark 10:6 (Genesis 1:27; Genesis 2:7,20-23); Mark 14:36; 15:34; Luke 22:42; John 4:3; 5:30; 6:38; 17:1,3; 20:17; Romans 15:6; 2 Corinthians 1:3; 11:31; Ephesians 1:3,17; Hebrews 1:9; 10:7; 1 Peter 1:3; Revelation 2:7; 3:2,12.

He nor any angel or man other than Jesus Christ is qualified to say most if not all of the verses I maintain is Jesus talking not the Angel.

As stated, this appears to be presenting a thought that I never presented, as though I had said that all the words of Revelation 22 were that of the angel, and not of Jesus nor of the God and Father of Jesus. If so, this is not what I said. It is probable, however, that the angel was delivering the words of Jesus and the God of Jesus in various parts of Revelation 22, as in many other places in the book of Revelation.

No man has seen the Father at any time. This has to include John himself so it wasn’t the Father talking to John.

With this I agree. No one — no one of the race dying in Adam — has seen the God and Father of Jesus, the only true God who sent Jesus. (John 1:18) The only man who had seen the only true God was he who descended from heaven. (John 3:13) John was seeing things by means of God’s holy spirit, that is in visions, and these visions were being delivered to John by the angels of Yahweh. John was not actually seeing the only Most High sitting on the throne, but rather he was seeing the depiction of such in a visionary way, by means of the spirit. (Revelation 1:10; 4:2) We are not to think that depictions of physical things (throne, crowns, rainbow, lightning, thunder, lamps of fire, etc.) as described in the book of Revelation, actually exist in the heavenly spirit world where God dwells. When it speaks of the Lamb, we are not to think that there is literally a physical lamb in heaven; it is not speaking of a literal lamb, but it is speaking figuratively, as a description of Jesus. Thus what John was seeing was pictorial scenes that figuratively depict the reality.

The angel told John in verse 6 that “The Lord” sent the angel. “The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets” is what the verse says. If they are both true. Then Jesus is “The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets”.

This is in reference to Revelation 22:6:

He said to me, “These words are faithful and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angels to show to his servants the things which must happen soon.”

This expression should be self-explanatory. “He” is the angel that is showing these things to John, as spoken of in Revelation 21:9,15; 22:1. “The Lord” here is a substitute for the holy name (Yahweh/Jehovah) of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Revelation 22:16, records Jesus as saying: “I, Jesus, have sent my messenger (angel), to bear witness unto you of these things, for the assemblies. I, am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright and the morning Star.” If the angels sent were the angels of Yahweh, how could the angel be referred to by Jesus as “my angel,” if he was actually the angel of Yahweh? Yahweh has given all authority to Jesus (Matthew 28:18), including authority over the angels. (1 Peter 3:22) The authority is given to him by the only true God, Yahweh. Thus, just as Jesus referred to sheep as “my sheep” (John 10:27) and yet he says that it was his “Father, who has given them to me” (John 10:29), and “They were yours, and you have given them to me. ” (John 17:6) Thus, Jesus, having received authority over the angels of Yahweh, Jesus could refer an angel of Yahweh as “my angel.”

God said moreover to Moses, “You shall tell the children of Israel this, ‘Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is my memorial to all generations. — Exodus 3:15, World English Bible translation

The God of the spirits of the prophets is the same God who spoke through Jesus. (Hebrews 1:1,2) The same God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who sent Moses (Exodus 3:15) also sent Jesus. (Deuteronomy 18:15-19) Jesus is depicted as saying prophetically, “Yahweh … sent me.” (Isaiah 61:1, World English) There is nothing in this to indicate that Yahweh (who sent Jesus) is Jesus (who was sent by Yahweh). The whole Revelation comes from the God and Father of Jesus; the God and Father of Jesus gives the revelation to Jesus; Jesus gives the revelation the angels of Yahweh, the angels delivered the revelation to John, who in turn was to deliver the revelation to the servants of God.

This is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things which must happen soon, which he sent and made known by his angel to his servant, John. — Revelation 1:1, World English.

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3 responses to “Revelation 22:13 – Objections

  1. Pingback: Revelation 22:13 - Response to Neil « The Son of Yahweh

  2. Pingback: Revelation 22:13 – I am Alpha and Omega | The Son of Yahweh

  3. Pingback: Revelation 1:8 – Is Jehovah or Jesus Being Quoted? « Jesus and His God

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