Category Archives: Hypostatic Union

Jesus’ Two Glories

Some claim that John 1 and Colossians 1 defines Jesus as both fully God (as in Almighty God) and also as fully man. It is further claimed that the true definition of “Jesus” is “the Son of God in the flesh.” It is then assumed, based on this definition, that if Jesus is still alive, then he must also still be “in the flesh.” However, when we examine these scriptures, we find that there is nothing either in John 1 or Colossians 1 that justifies the conclusion that Jesus ever was, is now, or ever will be, the only true God (the Supreme Being, the only Most High). Nor do we see anything that gives us a definition that Jesus is now the “Son of God in the flesh.”

The Bible reveals that Jesus has had two different general forms of glory, but he did not have both at the same time. Before Jesus became a man, he spoke of a glory that he had with the only true God before the world (the world that was made through him; the world that he came into, the world that did not recognize him — John 17:1,3,5) was made. (John 1:3,10) Jesus prayed that he again have the glory that had with the only true God, so while he was in the days of his flesh, Jesus did not have that glory. If he did have that glory while in the days of his flesh, then why would he ask the only true God (John 17:1,3) to give that glory to him again? — John 17:5.

Paul spoke of the two general kinds of glory, when he was answering the question about the kind of body with which the dead are raised. He said: “There are also celestial [in the heavens] bodies, and terrestrial [in the earth] bodies; but the glory of the celestial differs from that of the terrestrial.” — 1 Corinthians 15:40.

Jesus, before he became a man, Jesus had the celestial glory, but he did not have the terrestrial glory. Thus John writes: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God [Ton Theon], and the Word was God [Theos, in this usage, more properly should be rendered “mighty,” in the sense of mightiness, not as “God” whom the Word was with]. The same was in the beginning with God [Ton Theon].”  (John 1:1,2) John was definitely not telling us that Jesus was “God” whom Jesus was with, but John is telling us of a special mightiness that Jesus had with the only true God before the world of mankind was made. — John 1:10; 17:3,5.

The title “Word,” designates Jesus as the Word of God, as shown in Revelation 19:13. John, in using the word “THEOS” of Jesus, was not making the claim that Jesus “was” the only true God whom Jesus was said he was with. (John 17:1,3,5) Many scholars say that THEOS here is speaking qualitatively. Forms of THEOS in the New Testament correspond with forms of the Hebrew word EL in the Old Testament. In the Old Testament, when forms of the Hebrew word EL were used “qualitatively,” they could be used of other persons and things than Yahweh in the sense of might, power, strength.

We will begin by showing this usage with John 10:34,35, where Jesus quotes and refers to  Psalms 82:1,6, where the Psalmist uses both forms of the Hebrew word EL and ELOHIM, and thus these words are applied the sons of the Most High, the sons to whom the Logos came (as Jesus explained). In John 10:34,35, the word ELOHIM is rendered as THEOI, the plural of THEOS. According the King James Version, God [ELOHIM] standeth in the congregation of the mighty [EL]. (Psalm 82:1) In reference to the sons of the Most High, the KJV renders the term EL as “the mighty.” Applying this scriptural principle to THEOS in John 1:1, we would likewise have “the Logos was mighty.”

Additionally, this is not the only place that the KJV renders forms of the words EL (Strong’s Hebrew #410)  and ELOHIM (Strong’s Hebrew #430) with terms showing mightiness or strength. Here are a few scriptures: Genesis 23:6 (mighty); Genesis 30:8 (mighty); Genesis 31:29 (power); Deuteronomy 28:32 (might); 1 Samuel 14:15 (great); Nehemiah 5:5 (power); Psalm 8:5 (angels); Psalm 36:6 (great); Proverbs 3:27 (power); Psalm 29:1 (mighty); Ezekiel 32:21 (strong); Jonah 3:3 (exceeding). The point is the King James translators, in all these verses, did not render the word for deity/divinity [EL] as “God” or as “god”, but with terms of might, strength, great, power and might. Likewise, since John is definitely not stating that the Word was the God that the Word was with, the most directly scriptural understanding of John 1:1c should be: “the Word was mighty.”

All of the spirit beings, by “nature” of the superior might given to them by the Almighty are scripturally designated as el or elohim, and thus can be spoken of as divine — mighty — in being. — Psalm 8:5 (compare Hebrews 2:9; also Psalm 50:1 and 96:4 could be speaking of angels as elohim); 45:6,7; Isaiah 9:6,7; John 1:1,2; Acts 2:33; 5:31; Ephesians 1:20,22; Philippians 2:9-11; Hebrews 1:2-4,8; 1 Peter 1:21; 3:22.

The scriptural conclusion is that since John is definitely not saying that the Word “was” (past tense) the only true God, then he is speaking of THEOS as a quality, that is, of the might, power, the glory that he “was” but was not while he was in the days of his flesh. Whatever is meant by THEOS in John 1:1c expresses what the LOGOS “was” before he became flesh, not while he “was” in the days of his flesh. – Hebrews 5:7

See the studies on John 1:1,2 at:
http://jesus.rlbible.com/?page_id=4871

When Jesus became a man, he no longer had the glory of the celestial, but he became fully a man, crowned with the glory a little lower than the angels. (Hebrews 2:9) As already, shown, while in the days of his flesh, Jesus did not have his former glory. (John 17:5) But he did possess the glory of a human, a glory that he maintained without spot or blemish, since he never sinned, and thus never fell short of the glory of his God and Father. (Romans 3:23) According to the scriptures, all mankind are dying because of Adam’s sin. (1 Corinthians 15:21,22; Romans 5:12-19) Yet Jesus never sinned. Does this mean that Jesus was not a man? Common evidence of the scriptures show that Jesus is not included in the “all” being spoken, since the manner in which he came into this world was not as a result of uniting a man’s sperm with the ovum of a woman. Hebrews 10:5 lets us know that his body was specially prepared by God Himself. He was not of dying race in Adam. (Romans 5:115-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22) Thus, his body was not a dying body, but it was a body having sinless life,  a body with the possibility of living forever, as Adam had before Adam sinned. John, in speaking in the past, while Jesus was flesh, said that: “In him was life.” (John 1:4) Jesus could not give dying flesh for mankind, but he could give living flesh (flesh not under condemnation of death), which he spoke of symbolically as “living bread.” (John 6:51) Jesus, therefore, offering his life, was offering the life that was in him, in his flesh, his human body, for the world of mankind. And having thus never sinned, having proven himself incorruptible before God even under severe sufferings, Jesus brought life and incorruption to light for mankind. (2 Timothy 1:10) He condemned sin in the flesh, proving that a sinless man could remain obedient. (Romans 8:3) In his obedience, he, as a human being, was brought to perfection, to completion, thus putting on incorruption (having proven himself incorruptible), as Adam could have done had Adam remained obedient. By his obedience to the only true God, Jesus thus conquered, and thus, as a human, no death could claim any hold on him. However, Jesus willingly gave up his human soul — his human sentiency — to pay the price for Adam and the dying race in Adam, so that his soul — his sentiency — was put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit. (1 Peter 3:18)  In receiving his soul back from realm of death, from the Bible hell, Jesus’ soul was no longer with the glory of a physical, terrestrial, earthy, body, but it was then a with the glory of a celestial, spiritual, heavenly body. Jesus, by his taking Adam’s place, has become the “last Adam” — the last father — the human race, so that his is now, not an earthly father, but the “life-giving spirit” from heaven.

Jesus gave himself as human in sacrifice, he did not give himself as THEOS in sacrifice.  The ransom sacrifice of Jesus only buys back what Adam lost. Adam lost sinless life on earth, in a physical, terrestrial body; Adam did not lose life in the heavens. It was only due to his sin, that Adam fell short of the glory of God. Before he sinned, therefore, his flesh did not fall short of that glory. There is nothing at all in the Bible that indicates that life in the heavens was ever offered to Adam. Thus, what Jesus gave to purchase mankind was not a spiritual, a celestial glory, but rather an earthly, fleshly glory. By offering in sacrifice that crown of glory, which is a little lower than the angels, Jesus therefore tasted death for every man. — Hebrews 2:9.

Of course, the name “Jesus” was first applied to Jesus when he became a Man. Before he became a man, Jesus tells us of his existence with the only true God, and that he had a glory at that time which he did not have as a man. Thus he prayed that the glory that he formerly had should be given to him again. (John 17:1,3,5) John speaks of that glory by using the Greek word “theos.” (John 1:1,2) Theos does usually mean “God,” but it does not always mean so. The Hebrews many times used the Hebrew words that are translated into Greek by the word “theos” to mean might, power, strength, etc. Jesus applied this general meaning to theos when he spoke of the sons of God as THEOI, thereby rendering the Hebrew ELOHIM by the Greek word THEOI (a plural of THEOS —  As a man, Jesus had the full glory of man, since he never fell short of that glory due to sin, for in him was no sin. That glory, however, is a glory a little lower than the angels. (Psalm 8:5; Hebrews 2:7) Thus his human crown of glory was never marred with sin, as is true of the descendants of Adam. — Romans 3:23; 5:12-19.

Jesus was put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit. (1 Peter 3:18) If Jesus is still flesh, then he never sacrificed his flesh; thus there has never been any offering made to God for our sins. — John 6:51; Ephesians 5:2; Hebrews 9:14; 10:10,12.

Jesus is no longer in the “days of his flesh.” (Hebrews 5:7) He now has a celestial (heavenly), spiritual body, having become the life-giving spirit from heaven. — 1 Corinthians 15:40,44,45,47.

Thus, Jesus never had two different “natures” (glories) at once. Jesus, before he became flesh, did not have the crown of human being, a little lower than the angels, but he did have the a celestial glory alongside the only true God. When he became flesh, he did not have the glory that he formerly had, but he did have the terrestrial glory of a human being, a little lower than the angels. Having sacrificed the glory of being a human being, a little lower than the angels, Jesus now is again with the celestial glory. Jesus never possessed both glories at once, thus the doctrine of Jesus’ having dual natures/beings at once is not in the Bible.

See also:
Jesus’ Prehuman Glory

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Philippians 3:20,21 and Jesus’ Ability

Philippians 3:20 – For our citizenship is in heaven, from where we also wait for a Savior, the Lord, Jesus Christ;
Philippians 3:21 – who will change the body of our humiliation to be conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working whereby he is able even to subject all things to himself.

Some trinitarians point to Philippians 3:20,21 as an alleged proof that Jesus is omnipotent, and claim thus that Jesus the Most High Yahweh Himself. Evidently, the thought that these trinitarians would wish for us to add to and read into what is stated is that since Jesus is able to subject all things to himself, then Jesus is omnipotent.

Actually, there is nothing here that says that Jesus is the Amighty Yahweh, or that Jesus is the source of his own power. Yahweh has certainly subjected all things to Jesus, but the power of being the Most High is not given to Jesus, since the Most High is the One who subjects all things to Jesus. — 1 Corinthians 15:27.

The fact that all the power that Jesus possesses is given to him shows that Jesus is not the source of his own power, and that he is not the Almighty. — Deuteronomy 18:18; Isaiah 11:2,3; 61:1-3; Matthew 11:27; 28:18; John 3:34,35; 5:30;  6:38; 8:42; 12:49;  13:3; 14:10; Acts 4:27; 10:38; Ephesians 1:20-22; Philippians 2:9-11; Hebrews 1:9; 1 Peter 3:22.

Additionally, if the fact that Jesus received his power and authority from another should mean that Jesus is omnipotent, then it would also indicate that before Jesus received his power he was not omnipotent, which would lead one to wonder how such could be, since omnipotence implies the source of all power. And, notice, the scripture does speak of a process of subjecting all things to Jesus, which also indicates that Jesus is not the Most High, since the Most High does not have any need of receiving authority or power to subject all things to Himself, since he is innately the “possessor of heaven and earth”.  — Genesis 14:22; Isaiah 40:22.

Furthermore, the scriptures show that the source of the power that brings about the subjection of all things under the feet of Jesus is Yahweh (Jehovah), the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Exodus 3:14,15; Psalm 110:1; Hebrews 10:12,13), who is also the only true God who sent Jesus (Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Isaiah 61:1; John 17:1,3; Acts 3:13; Hebrews 1:1,2), and who is also the God and Father of Jesus.  — 2 Corinthians 11:31; Ephesians 1:3; Colossians 1:3; 1 Peter 1:3.

No, nothing in any of these scriptures mean that Jesus is the Most High, or that Jesus is the source of his own power and authority.

Jesus is Both God and his Son? Part 2

This is part 2 of this series in response to:

Blog of the Good Shepherd

(Click Here for Part 1)

The statement is made that “Christians believe that Jesus is both fully human and fully God.” Actually, this is not true, since there are many, many Biblically-oriented Christians who do not believe this. What this should actually state is that Christians who believe in the trinitarian dogma believe that Jesus is both fully human and fully God. The Bible itself never mentions such a duality as described by trinitarians, for such dogma has to be assumed, added to, and read into, each scripture that is presented to allegedly support the assumed dogma.

Trinitarians assume this idea to be true and then go all through the words of Jesus and claim that parts of the words apply to Jesus in his alleged God “nature,” and his being the Supreme Being, and that other parts of his words apply to Jesus as his being a human being, which being is not the Supreme Being. They will often split one sentence of Jesus two or three ways so as to make some parts of it apply to the alleged Jesus the Supreme Being, and other parts of the same sentence apply to Jesus the human being (who is not the Supreme Being.)

Following their reasoning through, Jesus is now two beings, one who is the Supreme Being, and another who is not the Supreme Being, for they claim that Jesus is right now still a human being, with a body of flesh, so that it would be only that human being that would address another as Supreme Being in Revelation 2:7; 3:2,12. Likewise, when Paul and Peter refer to the God and Father of Jesus (Romans 15:6; 2 Corinthians 1:3,11:31; Ephesians 1:3; 4:6; 1 Peter 1:3), they would add to this that this refers to the human being Jesus, and not the alleged Supreme Being Jesus. Thus, right now in the heavens, according this dogma, Jesus the human has another who is his Supreme Being.

Following such logic through to its logical end (which logic the trinitarian dogma simply ignores), then Jesus is right now as a human being that is not the Supreme Being, but rather lower than the Supreme Being, and he is also right now the Supreme Being who is not the human being, Jesus. In effect, it would claim that Jesus has two different sentiencies: (1) One sentient being that is omniscient; and (2) one sentient being that is not omniscient, and evidently is not aware of all that the alleged Jesus as the omniscient being is aware of. — Mark 13:32; John 14:10; Revelation 1:1.

By his having two different sentiencies at the same time, one of which is not aware of the other, doesn’t this actually draw the conclusion that Jesus himself is two different persons? Trinitarians deny that Jesus is two persons, but, in actuality, what other conclusion can we come to, if we take thier reasoning to the logical conclusions? Of course, some trinitarians will admit that their dogma isn’t logical, and claim that we cannot understand God, and by this they justify the illogic of their added dogma. Some even offer the illogic of their dogma as proof that their dogma is true, claiming that since we cannot fully understand God, then there is no reason to fully understand the added-on dogma. In reality, why add such to the scriptures when the scriptures can be seen to fully in harmony without adding such dogma to the scriptures?

Nevertheless, Jesus had had two different beings, but not at the same time. Paul speaks of two general forms of being and the glory of both in 1 Corinthians 15:40, the celestial (heavenly, spiritual) glory and the terrestrial (earthly, physical) glory. However, Paul does not confound the two. He states: “the glory of the celestial differs from that of the terrestrial.” And, “As is the one made of dust, such are those who are also made of dust; and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.” (1 Corinthians 15:48) They two separate glories, on two different planes of existence.

While Jesus was a human being, Jesus prayed to the only true God: “Father, glorify me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world existed.” (John 17:1,3,5) We can learn several things from what Jesus stated here: (1) That Jesus had a glory with the only true God before the world of mankind was made; (2) that Jesus did not at the time of this prayer have that glory, else why would he pray for this glory; (3) his prayer to have that former glory indicates his expectation of again having the glory he had with the only true God before the world was made.

However, Jesus did have a glory while he was a human being. His body of flesh was especially prepared by God, separate from the sin of Adam, so that he did not share in the sinful flesh and its condemnation through Adam. Adam, before he sinned, being without sin at that time, he did not fall short of the glory of God in his flesh. When he sinned, then he fell short of that glory, and his flesh became sinful. (Roman 3:23) He was not, by nature, a child of wrath nor a son of disobedience until he disobeyed. (Ephesians 2:2,3) It was this condition that all of us have received from Adam before we are even born into this world, necessitating a deliverance from this condition and its result — death. (Romans 5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22) This is the way that humanity’s flesh became “sinful.” (Romans 8:3)

Jesus, however, did not share that sinful nature, since his body was prepared by his God. (Hebrews 10:5) Thus, when he left the glory he had before, he became flesh, but with the condemnation of sin through Adam. He never once sinned; he never once disobeyed his God and Father. Never having sin, he never fell short of the glory of God in his flesh. He had the full terrestrial glory while he was a human, but he did not have the glory that he had before became flesh. (Hebrews 2:9) The purpose of his becoming flesh was to offer that flesh, unblemished by sin, as an offering for sin. (Hebrews 10:10; John 6:51) He completed that offering, without blemish, to the only true God after he ascended. (Acts 1:9; Ephesians 5:2; Hebrews 9:14,24-26; 10:11) Having offered that flesh for sin, he does not take back that offering. Nor has he any need to become a human being again, since there is no sacrifice to be offered for sin. — Hebrews 10:26.

Jesus, therefore, no longer has the glory of a human being, but he now again has the glory of the heavenly, celestial, spiritual being. His life, however, is still derived from the only true Supreme Being, as we read, “yet he lives through the power of God.” — 2 Corinthians 13:4.

Thus, we see the three phases of Jesus’ existence: (1) The glory of a heavenly being that Jesus had with the only true God before the world of mankind was made; (2) the glory of a sinless human being while he was a human; (3) the glory of a heavenly being as he now is.

None of this, however, supports the dualistic approach of the trinitarian which would have Jesus as two sentient beings at once.

It is being claimed that we do not understand orthodox Trinitarian thought as shown in the Chalcedonian Creed, and that we have inserted a Nestorian view. We are, of course, not presenting the so-called “orthodox” trinitarian thought above, but we are presenting the logical conclusion that the so-called orthodox idea of “dualism” would lead to.  Of course, we realize that the trinitarian does have to throw logic out the window in order to have the trintarian assumption to appear to be supported by the scriptures. In actuality, there  stll is absolutely nothing at all in the Bible about Jesus’ having existence at two different planes of sentiency at once. Of course, the trinitarian does not word it that way; he would add to and read into the scriptures that Jesus has two “natures” at once. The Greek word they would give for “nature” is “hypostasis” — “treis hypostaseis en mia ousia”, (“three persons in one substance”), or “mia ousia, treis hypostaseis” (“One essence in three hypostases”), and then they would add to and read into this their trintiarian definitions as they would this word apply to Jesus, while totally disregarding most of the logical conclusions as we have presented above. The word “hypostasis” does appear in the Greek New Testament five times, but it is never used in the Bible in the manner of the claims being made by the trinitarian. The whole concept presented by the trinitarian has to be assumed, added to, and read into, each and every scripture that is presented to allegedly support the added-on trinitarain dogma.

We are chided for assuming “unipersonalism.” In truth, the default assumption is that God is one person, not more than one, since that is the way that God is presented all the way through the scriptures, from Genesis to Revelation. And that one true God is presented by Jesus as his Father. (John 17:1,3) We make no apologies for the assumption that God is one person, and we have no reason to try to prove that God is not more than one person! The onus is on the trinitarian, not us, to provide the proof that God is more than one person. However, all the “proof” that the trinitarian provides actually has to be added to and read into the scriptures, for the scriptures no where say anything at all about more than one person in God.

Jesus never claimed to be that one true God, not once!!! Jesus never claimed to be the Most High, not once!!!! Jesus never claiemed to be the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, not once!!! All the claim attributed to Jesus for such have to be asssumed, added to, and read into each and every scripture presented to alleged to support the added-on assumptions. There is absolutly nothing in the Bible about Jesus’ having two “natures” at once, as that term is used by trinitarians.

http://godandson.reslight.net

To be continued in Part 3