Tag Archives: alpha and omega

Revelation 21:6 – God Who Sits on the Throne

Before reading this, we suggest reading the post on Revelation 1:8

Revelation 21:5 – He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” He said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”
Revelation 21:6 – He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give freely to him who is thirsty from the spring of the water of life.
Revelation 21:7 – He who overcomes, I will give him these things. I will be his God [THEOS], and he will be my son.

If these are the words of Jesus, then Jesus could only be applying THEOS to himself in Revelation 21:7 as it was applied to him before became flesh (John 1:1), but similar to the way that the Hebrew word EL was applied to rulers in the Old Testament. (Ezekiel 32:21) Jesus, of course, will be the mighty ruler of the age to come, and in this sense the word THEOS could be applied to him, but not as the only true God. — John 17:3.

Nevertheless, I do not believe that John is quoting Jesus in the words of Revelation 21:5-7, but that he is quoting the angel who is quoting Yahweh. ‘He who sits on the throne’ in the book of Revelation is spoken of as the God of Jesus (Revelation 1:4; 2:7; 3:2,12), and is distinguished from the Lamb, representing Jesus. (Revelation 1:4,5; 5:1-7; 5:13, 6:16, 7:10,15) Applying this to the One sitting on the throne in Revelation 21:5 would mean that these words are the words of the God of Jesus, not Jesus himself, although they were delivered by Jesus to the angel who delivered them to John. (Revelation 1:1,2) Many, if not most, trinitarian Bible scholars acknowledge that the words of Revelation 1:5 are spoken by God the Father as distinguished from the Lamb, but some vaguely, and often without any reason for doing so, will claim that the one being quoted in verses 6 and/or 7 is Jesus. It should be apparent that the one being quoted in verses 5-7 are all the “one who sits on the throne”.

The words of Revelation 21:7 are not directed to the believers of this age, but to the world in the age to come, in the day of judgment and regeneration of the world, although indirectly they are applicable, since the believers in this age are reckoned, counted, imputed (Strong’s #3049) with the blessings and powers of the age to come, having received the spirit as a token, earnest, as first fruits, of that which is to come. –Romans 4; 6:11; 1 Corinthians 1:21,22; 5:17; 2 Corinthians 5:5; Ephesians 1:3-14; Hebrews 6:5; 12:23; James 1:18.

One can find more on this at:

Alpha and Omega Archive

The next in this series on Alpha and Omega deals with Revelation 22:13

Revelation 22:13 – Response

One has responded to our discussion of Revelation 22:13, with the claim that we “engage in the most bizarre mental contortions.”

Our earlier examinations of Revelation 22:13 include the following:

http://godandson.relslight.net/alphaomega.html
https://sonofyah.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/ao-03/
https://sonofyah.wordpress.com/2008/09/30/rev-2213-obj/

We are not told exactly how it is that we allegedly engaged in bizarre mental contortions. We have endeavored to lay out as simply as possible the logical conclusion as related to the context, the rest of the book of Revelation, as well as to show who is saying what in harmony with the entire Bible. The thought given seems to indicate that Jesus remains the speaker from Revelation 22:13 to verse 16, where it is definitely Jesus who says, “I Jesus.” However, we should note that Revelation 22:14 definitely gives sure indication of not being spoken by the same person who was speaking in Revelation 22:13, since it refers back to “his commandments.” Thus, the most logical conclusion is that whoever is speaking in verse 14 is not the one who identifies himself as Alpha and Omega in verse 13. There is nothing bizarre or contorted in that.

Additionally, Alpha and Omega is identified in Chapter 21:5,6 as the one sitting on the throne, who is not the Lamb (Jesus), since Jesus is the one who takes the scroll from the One sitting on the throne. (Revelation 5:7) We have no reason to think that Alpha and Omega in Revelation 22:13 is not the same person who speaks in Revelation 21:5,6.

Before, it is definitely the angel, not Jesus or Yahweh, speaking in verses 9 through 11. Verses 12 and 13 are most certainly not the angel, although directly there is nothing to show any break from the angel to someone else. It is Yahweh —  the God and Father of Jesus, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the only true God who sent Jesus — of whom it prophesied in the Old Testament: “Yahweh; for he comes, For he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world with righteousness, The peoples with his truth.” (Psalm 96:13) “Let them sing before Yahweh, For he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world with righteousness, And the peoples with equity” (Psalm 98:9) Paul lets us know that Yahweh comes to judge by means of the one that Yahweh ordained. (Acts 17:31) In the Old Testament, Yahweh judged Israel by means of many judges whom he sent; likewise, He judges the world by means of His Son, whom he has ordained, appointed, as judge. So while there is indeed a very close connection between Jesus and what Jesus’ God performs through Jesus, this does not mean that Jesus is his God.

Regardless, even if it were Jesus who used the term Alpha and Omega in Revelation 22:13, it still would not mean that Jesus is his God. It would only mean that in some way the term Alpha and Omega is applicable to both Jesus and to his God. One would have to assume the idea that Jesus is Yahweh; and then assume and add to that assumption that the Jesus is a person of Yahweh, in order to have the trinitarian view added to the scripture.

Jesus, of course, is never presented in the Bible as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jesus was sent by the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. — Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Matthew 4:4 (Deuteronomy 8:3; Luke 4:4); Matthew 4:7 (Deuteronomy 6:16); Matthew 4:10 (Exodus 20:3-5; 34:14; Deuteronomy 6:13,14; 10:20; Luke 4:8); Matthew 22:29-40; Matthew 26:42; Matthew 27:46; Mark 10:6 (Genesis 1:27; Genesis 2:7,20-23); Mark 14:36; 15:34; Luke 22:42; John 4:3; 5:30; 6:38; 17:1,3; 20:17; Romans 15:6; 2 Corinthians 1:3; 11:31; Ephesians 1:3,17; Hebrews 1:9; 10:7; 1 Peter 1:3; Revelation 2:7; 3:2,12.

http://godandson.reslight.net/jesusnotyhwh.html

Revelation 22:13 – Objections

Some objections have been posted related our presentation of Revelation 22:13 on the following blogsite:

http://mmcelhaney.blogspot.com/2008/09/bible-basics-trinity-part-2-redux.html

MMcelhaney does not actual address the arguments presented, but instead seems to present material designed to distract from the studies.

I would love to see what version of the Bible and what printing the author used.

I showed in the study the translation used: “World English Bible translation, with quotation marks slightly adjusted from that used in the World English.”

I did not use any print edition, but I used that which is online at studylight.org and bible.crosswalk.com. Information on this translation may be found at:
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Information/WorldEnglishBible.html

The World English translators, being trinitarian, and believing that Alpha and Omega is Jesus, would supply quotation marks to support that belief. Of course, the earlier Greek had no punctuation, quotation marks, etc., so whatever is supplied along this line is so supplied by the discretion of the translators.

Every King James Version and any Bible that has Christ’s words in red letters have these verses in red. Why? Traditionally this has been interpreted to be Jesus’ words.

This appears to an appeal to man’s traditions rather than actually addressing the scriptures themselves. The fact that any publisher of the Bible decides to put words in red so as to attribute those words to Jesus does not offer any proof that those words were in fact spoken by Jesus. Add to this that most publishers of Bibles are trinitarian, and thus believe that Jesus claimed to be the Alpha and Omega. In effect, this kind of argument is circular, stating that we believe that these are words of Jesus, and therefore since we believe that these are words of Jesus, then we offer our belief that these are words of Jesus that they are the words of Jesus.

https://sonofyah.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/ao-01/

https://sonofyah.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/ao-2/

https://sonofyah.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/ao-03/

Why assume that the angel is quoting someone else.

Although I am not sure what the purpose of this statement; I gave the reasons for this in the studies, and this is stated in Revelation 1:1. There is no reason to assume otherwise. John refers to the angels who spoke to him and showed him these things. — Revelation 1:1; 17:7; 22:6,8.

From the fourth chapter of Revelation to the end of the book, the one “who sits on the throne” is not the Lamb, who depicts Jesus, for the Lamb approaches the one who sits on the throne in order to take the scroll from the one sitting on the throne. (Revelation 5:6,7) This one “who sits on the throne” is one that Jesus addressed earlier as “my God.” (Revelation 2:7; 3:2,12)  The one who sits on the throne is Yahweh God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God who sent Jesus, the God and Father of Jesus. —  Exodus 3:15; Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Matthew 4:4 (Deuteronomy 8:3; Luke 4:4); Matthew 4:7 (Deuteronomy 6:16); Matthew 4:10 (Exodus 20:3-5; 34:14; Deuteronomy 6:13,14; 10:20; Luke 4:8); Matthew 22:29-40; Matthew 26:42; Matthew 27:46; Mark 10:6 (Genesis 1:27; Genesis 2:7,20-23); Mark 14:36; 15:34; Luke 22:42; John 4:3; 5:30; 6:38; 17:1,3; 20:17; Romans 15:6; 2 Corinthians 1:3; 11:31; Ephesians 1:3,17; Hebrews 1:9; 10:7; 1 Peter 1:3; Revelation 2:7; 3:2,12.

He nor any angel or man other than Jesus Christ is qualified to say most if not all of the verses I maintain is Jesus talking not the Angel.

As stated, this appears to be presenting a thought that I never presented, as though I had said that all the words of Revelation 22 were that of the angel, and not of Jesus nor of the God and Father of Jesus. If so, this is not what I said. It is probable, however, that the angel was delivering the words of Jesus and the God of Jesus in various parts of Revelation 22, as in many other places in the book of Revelation.

No man has seen the Father at any time. This has to include John himself so it wasn’t the Father talking to John.

With this I agree. No one — no one of the race dying in Adam — has seen the God and Father of Jesus, the only true God who sent Jesus. (John 1:18) The only man who had seen the only true God was he who descended from heaven. (John 3:13) John was seeing things by means of God’s holy spirit, that is in visions, and these visions were being delivered to John by the angels of Yahweh. John was not actually seeing the only Most High sitting on the throne, but rather he was seeing the depiction of such in a visionary way, by means of the spirit. (Revelation 1:10; 4:2) We are not to think that depictions of physical things (throne, crowns, rainbow, lightning, thunder, lamps of fire, etc.) as described in the book of Revelation, actually exist in the heavenly spirit world where God dwells. When it speaks of the Lamb, we are not to think that there is literally a physical lamb in heaven; it is not speaking of a literal lamb, but it is speaking figuratively, as a description of Jesus. Thus what John was seeing was pictorial scenes that figuratively depict the reality.

The angel told John in verse 6 that “The Lord” sent the angel. “The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets” is what the verse says. If they are both true. Then Jesus is “The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets”.

This is in reference to Revelation 22:6:

He said to me, “These words are faithful and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angels to show to his servants the things which must happen soon.”

This expression should be self-explanatory. “He” is the angel that is showing these things to John, as spoken of in Revelation 21:9,15; 22:1. “The Lord” here is a substitute for the holy name (Yahweh/Jehovah) of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Revelation 22:16, records Jesus as saying: “I, Jesus, have sent my messenger (angel), to bear witness unto you of these things, for the assemblies. I, am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright and the morning Star.” If the angels sent were the angels of Yahweh, how could the angel be referred to by Jesus as “my angel,” if he was actually the angel of Yahweh? Yahweh has given all authority to Jesus (Matthew 28:18), including authority over the angels. (1 Peter 3:22) The authority is given to him by the only true God, Yahweh. Thus, just as Jesus referred to sheep as “my sheep” (John 10:27) and yet he says that it was his “Father, who has given them to me” (John 10:29), and “They were yours, and you have given them to me. ” (John 17:6) Thus, Jesus, having received authority over the angels of Yahweh, Jesus could refer an angel of Yahweh as “my angel.”

God said moreover to Moses, “You shall tell the children of Israel this, ‘Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is my memorial to all generations. — Exodus 3:15, World English Bible translation

The God of the spirits of the prophets is the same God who spoke through Jesus. (Hebrews 1:1,2) The same God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who sent Moses (Exodus 3:15) also sent Jesus. (Deuteronomy 18:15-19) Jesus is depicted as saying prophetically, “Yahweh … sent me.” (Isaiah 61:1, World English) There is nothing in this to indicate that Yahweh (who sent Jesus) is Jesus (who was sent by Yahweh). The whole Revelation comes from the God and Father of Jesus; the God and Father of Jesus gives the revelation to Jesus; Jesus gives the revelation the angels of Yahweh, the angels delivered the revelation to John, who in turn was to deliver the revelation to the servants of God.

This is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things which must happen soon, which he sent and made known by his angel to his servant, John. — Revelation 1:1, World English.

Revelation 1:8 – The God of Jesus Speaks

This is the first of three-part series on Alpha and Omega in the book of Revelation.

It is our belief that Alpha and Omega all through the book Revelation is in reference to the God and Father of Jesus, not to Jesus, who is the son of His God. We find the phrase — Alpha and Omega — in Revelation 1:8; 21:6; 22:13 — all three of which, if we examine the scriptures closely, can be seen to refer to Yahweh, the God and Father of Jesus. In this post, we will examine the first of the scriptures, Revelation 1:8.

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” — Revelation 1:8
New American Standard Version

The scripture itself, the context, as well as other scriptures, show that it is the God of Jesus who is being quoted as speaking in Revelation 1:8, not Jesus himself. The Revelation is from the God and Father of Jesus, who, in turn gives the message to his angel, who in turn gives the message to John. Revelaton 1:1 uses the word “God” — not to designate three persons, but rather it designates one person, the one that Jesus refers to as “my God.” (Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34; John 20:17; 2 Corinthians 1:3; 11:31; Ephesians 1:3,17; 1 Peter 1:3; Revelation 3:12) All through the New Testament, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is presented as one person, and always as distinct from His son. — Acts 3:13-26; Hebrews 1:1,2.

Nevertheless, in Revelation 1:1, there are four persons involved in the transmission of the Revelation, and, throughout the Revelation, sometimes it is Jesus who is being quoted, and sometimes it is John who is speaking, and sometimes it is the angel who is quoted, and sometimes it is the God and Father of Jesus who is quoted.

In Revelation 1:8, the Alexandrian manuscripts, the Complutensian edition, and the Latin Vulgate, the Syriac, and Arabic versions, all read, “the Lord God”; and the Ethiopic version only has “God”. Most modern translations have “the Lord God”, which expression was used as a substitute for the expression “Yahweh [Jehovah] God”, that appears many times in the Old Testament. This can be seen by comparing Acts 3:22; 7:37 with the Hebrew of Deuteronomy 18:15. In all instances where the phrase occurs in the NT, it is in reference to Yahweh, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus. — Luke 1:32; 1 Peter 3:10-15; Revelation 11:17,19; 15:3; 16:7; 18:8; 21:11; 22:6.
http://tinyurl.com/y3kock

Likewise, with the phrases “the Lord our God” and “the Lord your God”: These phrases are always used in reference to Yahweh, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus. — Matthew 4:7 (Deuteronomy 6:16); Matthew 4:10 (Deuteronomy 6:13; 10:20); Matthew 22:37 (Deuteronomy 6:5); Mark 12:29 (Deuteronomy 6:4); etc.

Jesus is differentiated from “God, who is and who was and who is to come” in Revelaton 1:4,5, which is basically the same phrase used in Revelation 1:8. Verses 5 and 6 refer to Jesus and the church members who are made a kingdom and also priests to “his God and Father” (World English Bible translation), that is, the God and Father of Jesus, which gives further differentiation between Jesus and his God and Father. Verse 7 refers to Jesus as coming with clouds. Verse 8 turns to quoting Yahweh, the One referred to in verse 4. In verses 9-10 John begins to write of himself. In verse 11, John begins to quote Jesus. In verses 12 through 16, John himself is writing of what he saw. In verse 17, John reports that he falls before Jesus as dead, and tells of what Jesus does and says.

Thus, Jesus is not being called Alpha and Omega in Revelation 1:8, nor is he being called “Almighty”.

Only the God and Father of Jesus is called the “Most High” in the scriptures: Genesis 14:22; Psalm 7:17; 83:18; 92:1; Luke 1:32; John 13:16.

More detail on this can be found at:
http://godandson.reslight.net/rev-1-8.html
http://reslight.net/forum/index.php?topic=139.0

Updated: February 1, 2010.

Continued in Revelation 21:6 and Revelation 22:13.