IS JESUS GOD THE CREATOR?

It is claimed:

Genesis 1:1 (God is the Creator) – John 1:3-10 (Jesus is the Creator)

There is definitely nothing at all in John 1:3-10 that gives us reason to imagine, assume, add to, and read into what is stated there that Jesus is the “one God” who is the source of all. — 1 Corinthians 8:6.

In Genesis 1:1, we have only one who is being presented as being the Creator, and that is the ELOHIM of Genesis 1:2, who is the ELOHIM and Father of Jesus. (Micah 5:4; Ephesians 1:3) For our trinitarian neighbors, they should note that ELOHIM in the expression translated as “spirit of God” (Genesis 1:2) is referring to only one person, not to more than one person; there is no reason to think that ELOHIM in Genesis 1:1 is not the same unipersonal ELOHIM of Genesis 1:2. For our oneness neighbors, one should ponder if ELOHIM is the spirit that is being spoken of, or if the spirit belongs to ELOHIM. ELOHIM in Micah 5:4 certainly excludes Jesus. ELOHIM of Genesis 1:1,2 speaks to someone else who is not Himself in Genesis 1:26. John 1:1-10 shows who this was that ELOHIM was speaking, for it shows that Father, the only true God of John 17:1,3, created the world of mankind through His Logos. The “world” (kosmos, Strong’s #2889) that God made through the Logos is that spoken of in John 1:9,10,29; 3:17; 16:28; 17:5; Romans 1:20; 5:12,13; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 3:19; 2 Peter 1:4; 1 John 2:2, and many other places throughout the New Testament. It is not there speaking of the spirit sons of God, for those sons were already in existence at the beginning spoken of in Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1, as can be seen by Job 38:4-7.

Thus, in John 1:3,10, we do not find anywhere in these verses that Jesus is the Creator spoken of in Genesis 1:1, but we have the Logos presented as being the one though whom ELOHIM of Genesis 1:1 made the world [kosmos] of mankind, the world into which the Logos came, the same world [kosmos] that became corrupted through the sin of one man. (Romans 5:12-19; 8:20-22) The world being spoken in John 1:3,10 does not include the angels, for Job 38:4-6 lets us know that the angels were already in existence at the “beginning” of Genesis 1:1 and John 1:1.

Jehovah, the one person who is ELOHIM in Genesis 1:1,2; Psalm 45:7; Isaiah 61:1,2; and Micah 5:4, is the Creator who creates through, by means of, His firstborn creature. (Colossians 1:15) Jehovah is the source; Jesus is the instrument. — 1 Corinthians 8:6.

See our studies related to Jesus and Creation
https://jesusnotyhwh.blogspot.com/p/jesus-and-creation.html

Who is Speaking in Zechariah 12?

One who is evidently a trinitarian asks: Who is speaking to Zechariah in 12:1, and who is speaking in Zechariah 12:10? Is it not the same person who speaks in verse 1?

It is further asked: Is the “me” who is pierced in verse 10 the same person who spoke in verse 1?

Zechariah 12:1 – An oracle. The word of Jehovah concerning Israel. Jehovah, who stretches out the heavens, and lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him says.

Zechariah 12:10 – I will pour on the house of David, and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they will look to me whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for his only son, and will grieve bitterly for him, as one grieves for his firstborn. — World English; edited to present the Holy Name as “Jehovah”.

Obviously, it is Jehovah, the God of the Messiah (Micah 5:4), who is speaking. Evidently, the idea is to make it appear that Jesus is Jehovah, since the word “me” is used related to the one pierced, and we know that in the New Testament, we find that it was Jesus who was pierced. — John 19:34,37; Revelation 1:6,7.

The problem is that this is one of the verses that has variant readings in the Hebrew manuscripts. Thus, in harmony with the New Testament, many translations do not have “me” in Zechariah 12:10, but rather “the one” or “him.” Joseph Benson stated concerning Zechariah 12:10: “between forty and fifty MSS. are produced which read אלוו, unto him, with the concurrence of other authorities.”

More than likely, the Revised Standard Version is correct:

Zechariah 12:10 – “And I [Jehovah] will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of compassion and supplication, so that, when they look on him [Jesus, whom Jehovah anointed and sent — Isaiah 61:1; John 17:1,3; Acts 2:36; 3:13-26] whom they have pierced [the one pierced is identified in the New Testament, not as being Jehovah, but as the one whom Jehovah sent], they shall mourn for him [Jesus], as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him [Jesus], as one weeps over a first-born.

Many other translations read similarly.

This would be in harmony with such scriptures as 1 Corinthians 8:6, wherein Paul certainly refers to the God of Jesus as being “one God” of whom are all, and excludes Jesus from being this “one God” by saying that Jesus is the “one Lord” through whom are all. It is harmony with Isaiah 61:1,2, where Jesus refers to Jehovah as “our God,” and declares that it was Jehovah who sent him. — See also Micah 5:4; John 17:1,3.

Nevertheless, Jesus, in effect, tells us that what is done to him is also done to his God and Father. — Matthew 10:40; 9:37; Mark 9:37; Luke 9:48; John 13:20; 15:23,24. Thus, to pierce God’s Son is the same as to pierce God Himself.

Regardless, there is nothing in Zechariah that presents Jehovah as being more than one person, or that He is three persons, or that Jesus is a person of Jehovah, etc.

For links to more of our studies related to Zechariah 12:10

John 10:30 – The Son is One With His Father

John 10:30 – I and my Father are one.

Jesus and the only true God, whom Jesus was with before the world (kosmos) of mankind was made (John 1:1,10; 17:1,3,5), are ‘one.’ Jesus was not saying that he and the only true God whom he was with are one only true God.

In the Greek manuscripts of John 10:30, the Greek form that Jesus used for the adjective “one” is transliterated as “hen” [which is neuter]. If Jesus had meant that he and the only true God whom he had been with are “one God,” he would not have used the Greek form “hen”, but he would have used the Greek form “heis” (masculine), as Paul does in 1 Corinthians 8:6. Since the Greek word Theos is masculine, it requires the masculine form of the adjective, not the neuter form. Nor is speaking of substance, as trinitarians use that term, “three persons in one being.” If Jesus was talking about “one being,” he would not have used the Greek form “hen”, but rather he would have used the Greek form, “mia,” as in the trinitarian statement: treis hypostaseis en mia ousia (three persons in one being). Since “ousia” is feminine, it requires the feminine form of the adjective, not the neuter form. Thus, when Jesus said that he and the only true God are “one”, he was neither speaking of “one God” nor “one substance.”

Nevertheless, we find further in the book of John where Jesus uses the Greek form “hen” several times:

Jesus prays for his followers to be one [hen], just as he is with his God and Father. — John 17:11.

Jesus prays that his followers may all be one [hen], just as he is one with his God and Father. — John 17:21.

Jesus prays that his followers may be one [hen] in himself and his Father, just as he is with his God and Father. — John 17:21.

Jesus prays that his followers may one [hen], just as he is one with his God and Father. — John 17:22.

It should be obvious that Jesus was not praying that his followers become one “God” with him and his Father, nor is he praying that they become “one substance” with him and his Father. He is speaking in terms of unity, agreement. Likewise, when Jesus said that he and the only true God (John 17:1,3) are one, he is speaking of agreement. There is nothing in John 10:30 that means that Jesus was claiming to be the only true God.

In Micah 5:4, we read from the American Standard Verstion, regarding the promised Messiah (Anointed One): “And he shall stand, and shall feed his flock in the strength of Jehovah, in the majesty of the name of Jehovah his God: and they shall abide; for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. ” Since Micah identifes Jehovah as being the God of Messiah, and that the Messiah stands in the strength of Jehovah, his God, the default reasoning should be that Jesus is NOT Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. 

For more regarding John 10:30, see:
Studies Pertaining to John 10:33

Regarding John 10:33, see:
The Real Reason the Jews Sought to Kill Jesus

Bible Hub’s Greek Analysis of John 10:30

1 Timothy 2:5 – The Man Christ Jesus

A question has been raised:

If Jesus is not now a man, then why was this written long after his death, burial, resurrection, and ascension?

1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, THE MAN Christ Jesus;

The problem is that one needs to read the entire sentence, which continues into verse 6:

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men,  the man Christ Jesus, 1 Timothy 2:6 who gave himself as a ransom for all; the testimony in its own times

Paul was saying that it was the “man” Jesus who gave himself as an offsetting price – ransom. The offsetting price had to be a sinless man to correspond to Adam before Adam sinned. (Romans 5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22) Having given himself as a man in sacrifice to his God (Ephesians 5:2), he is no longer a man. If he is still a man, then he has not given himself in sacrifice, or else he has taken back what he had given. Either way, it would leave us without an  atoning sacrifice for sin. If he is still a man, this would annul the purpose for Jesus’ coming in the flesh, that is, to give his flesh for the life of the world. (John 6:51; 1 John 1:2; 4:2,3,10) Jesus is no longer in the days of his flesh. (Hebrews 5:7) If he is, then he is still a little lower than the angels, and there has been no offering for our sin. — Hebrews 2:9.

See:

The Man Jesus – Still A Man? – 1 Timothy 2:5

Jesus Died a Human Being – Raised a Spirit Being

1 Timothy 3:16 – God in the Flesh?

I plan to edit and transfer this from another site; in meantime:

PLEASE CLICK HERE to see this material:
http://reslight.boards.net/post/942